e-mail dave@oldwestgunsmith.com

 

-A GUIDE TO HAVING REPAIR WORK DONE-

• Sending Guns in for repair
• Our prices outlined
• Notes on turn-around times
• Refurbishment VS restoration what's the difference?
• Fire Damage

We handle no walk-in trade, with very few exceptions we operate on a mail order basis only. The shop is not open to the public and we have done business this way successfully for 35 years.

Sending work to us:

If you would like to send a firearm in for an estimate, e-mail us first for a shipping address dave@oldwestgunsmith.com

 

All work will be quoted to you in a written estimate only after our examination and each estimate is handled on an individual basis. When sending a firearm in for an estimate, please be sure to include these three items with the weapon:

1) include a letter (or note) stating what kind of work you would like an estimate for, along with your name and return shipping address, a telephone number where you can be called during the day and please; an e-mail address and/or a fax number if you have one.

2) include a $20.00 estimate fee per weapon (we have not raised this fee for 23 years) The estimate fee is deducted from the cost of the job, should you decide to have the work done.

3) include the basic shipping & packing costs: check with the carrier to determine insurance costs. These costs are:

. . .a minimum of $35.00 each antique hand gun / $40.00 for two guns in one box. Plus insurance costs.

. . .a minimum of $40.00 each long gun. Plus insurance costs.

. . .a minimum of $45.00 each modern hand gun from an individual for FedEx, or $35. if dealer to dealer. Plus insurance costs.

 

NOTE: Never send ammunition along with the gun, it is against the law. Always ship ammo separately using UPS or FedEx ground service only, USPS will not ship ammunition.

 

Please note: Smith & Wesson Model 3 large frame top-break revolvers are all pre-1898 antiques, regardless of the date of sale.

It is legal for an individual to ship firearms (firearms, defined as being manufactured after 1898) interstate but only if they are shipped to a licensed dealer, manufacturer or gunsmith such as myself. Modern handguns may not be shipped using the US Postal Service, except between licensed dealers, but UPS and FedEx will handle handguns. Antique firearms are not restricted by the BATF for interstate shipment but you will want to check into and comply with all your own state and local laws that might pertain to shipping antique firearms.

If you have trouble shipping us a modern handgun, e-mail us. We can usually arrange for FedEx to come to your home to pick up the package.

Pricing

I have always tried to charge just enough for me to make a fair living and still give the customer a fair shake (that has always been important to me and always will be) and in this day and age neither is easy. Some folks think I must be making a fortune doing this, I only know that because a few people have actually told me that they know I am making a fortune (in each case, the guy had "known" me for all of ten minutes on the telephone.) I guess these folks must be privy to a bank account that I don't know about. . .don't you just love it when some stranger knows more about you than you do?

 

In practical terms; my plumber charges more an hour than I do and from what I can see (having actually worked as a plumber many years ago), although some of it involves harder manual labor, the work he does is really simple compared to what I do, yet, I don't hear many folks complaining about what their plumbers charge. Recently I was told that attorneys in some large cities are charging $300.-500 and even more per-hour for thier time. Wow, I suppose they must be worth it because people pay them without griping too. I haven't got the nerve to charge that much per hour, although I've had plenty of people tell me I should.

 

Well, I'm still stewin' on that. . . Some sample prices are shown below.

The prices shown below are minimal approximations of costs for similar work; they are not price quotations for your gun.

Complete, detail cleaning and de-rusting, (includes after-treat with high quality, moisture displacing oil for safe, long-term storage)

Most handguns. . . .from. . .$100.

Lever action rifles. . . .from. . .$150.

Most double guns. . . .boxlock from. . .$200., sidelock from. . .$250.

Browning A5. . . .from. . .$200.

 

Refinishing work. . .

Hot Caustic Blue: the modern blueing method, only with our careful hand preparation and polishing work; this looks just like the factory refurbishment of the 1920' & 30's that is no longer available from the factories.

Handguns..............................................from.....$400. (1930's S&W Registered Magnum blue from $800.)

Lever action rifles................................... " ......$450.

Shotguns, pump, auto or single............... " ......$400.

We also offer brushed and matt-bead blast blue finishes.

 

Slow Rust Blue: the old fashioned way, all hand polished and prepared

Handguns...............................................from.....$500.

Double barrel set..................................... " ......$350.

Drillings, barrels set................................ " ......$450.

Lever action rifles................................... " ......$600.

Single barrel, round................................. " ......$300.

Single barrel, octagon............................. " ......$350.

Charcoal Blue....................................On quotation only.

Color Case Harden: bone & charcoal method , completely hand polished and prepared...On quotation only.

Other Finishes for Metal..........................On quotation only.

Nitre blue (the old translucent blue, like old Colt hammers)

Straw color (like Lugers used on small parts).

Slow rust browning.

Electro-plating in nickel & silver (we do not accept badly pitted guns for plating.) Note: Electro-plating is expensive, the costs to refinish in electro-plate are often greater than the value of the weapon.

Matt blasted and brushed surface bluing.

 

Restoration work..........................On quotation only.

Repair work. . .

Revolver work (some Single Action examples shown) also see our Cowboy section

Replace and hand fit the hand & handpring, completely re-time the revolver $100.

Replace and hand fit "early" or faulty bolt and completely re-index the revolver $125.

Tweak (slightly turn) barrel to adjust windage on Colts & clones (shooting-sighting in is additional) $65

Cylinders: Hand polish and hone chambers, chamfer rear for easy loading/unloading. Left bright $60.

Rotational: Line-ream worn frame & bushing for new, oversized base pin. $75.

Rotational: Fit new standard base pin bushing. $35.

Rotational: Fit oversized base pin busing to worn cylinder. $60.

Alter (machine and drill) fixed sighted revolver frame to accept S&W target rear (+ materials & blue if needed) $235.00

Revolver barrel work: (prices shown are approximations, actual cost quoted per job only)

Re-barrel or set-back barrel and lathe cut ejector housing, set front sight at 12o'c, test fire for function, (sighting in is additional) $175.

Barrel lining, quoted on a per job basis.

Smith & Wesson Model "M" Ladysmith. Repair blown forcing cone; a process we developed, the repair is virtually invisible, looks factory and restores the gun to shooting condition from $500.

Alter (machine and drill) fixed sighted barrel to accept S&W pre-war target front sight. (Does not include R&R barrel or finish work.) $115.

Re-sight Colt or clone SAA with correct silver soldered in place sight, includes blueing or plating work, R&R barrel test fire for function (shooting-sighting in is additional) POR

Shorten barrel, machine crown, machine factory-type sight notch, install front sight (silver solder or pinned-S&W) R&R barrel and test fire for function (shooting-sighting in is additional) POR

Revolver cylinder re-chambering: (prices shown are approximations, actual cost quoted per job only)

Colt SAA .38-357 to .44 or .45 $210.

Colt SAA 32 to .38 Spl or LC $210. to .44 or .45 $270.

S&W NM#3 32-44 to .38 Long Colt or .38 S&W to .44 Russian or .45 S&W $270.

S&W NM#3 32-44 to .44 Russian or .45 S&W $270.

 

 

Stocks, grips and Woodworking. . .

Custom 19th century style grips (shaped exactly like factory) in ivory, ebony, sambar stag, aged walnut, rosewood or several other exotics....priced on quotation only.

Simple factory-like repair (remove dents) and re-finish in hand rubbed oil, from...$200.

Checkering, re-cut, from...$250.

Handgun grip repair and refinishing, wood, hard rubber, ivory......On quotation only.

New Checkering.........................................................On quotation.

Other: Re-stocking with new wood to original...Stock repairs and restorations of all sorts...Glass bedding...Leather faced pads (we no longer offer leather covered pads.) ...carving... stock shields (nameplates)...Inlay work. All custom woodwork is unique and is done by written quotation only.

Other Services..........................On quotation.

All manner of repairs, mechanical rebuilds and mechanical restorative work.

Parts and screws handmade to exacting specifications. (only when ordered as part of the job, sorry but we just don't have the time to make parts and screws for sale separately.)

Firearms finish restorations.

Factory-specification refinishing (refurbishment): A long-time shop speciality.

Re-cut markings. Factory logos re-cut.

Milling, drilling, lathe and other custom machine work.

Welding.

 

 

 

Turn Around Times

How long does this take? For antique arms, sometimes it can take a while

 

These days I am writing only about a quarter of the time, so while antique gun work is still being done on a semi-part time basis and I am able to devote much more time to the shop than I have in the past several years. My son David T. Chicoine is now working full-time at my shop, his primary focus is the more modern guns. For most work excepting restorations, generally speaking, David T. has a shorter turn-around time.

Repair and restoration work on older firearms is always essentially one-of-a-kind, custom work and the demand has always been in much greater supply than my time. While I will always try to accomplish your job in a timely manner, you should understand that the quality of the work and customer satisfaction with the end product will always take precedence over speed and I make no exceptions to that simple rule. We maintain a level of craftsmanship that is consummate with 19^th century practice, this is not production line work; if it were you could find it everywhere.

 

All jobs are placed into a chronological schedule that is based on the order the work is authorized and paid for. Since this is a two-man operation, some jobs will end up taking longer than anticipated so it may require patience on your part while you are waiting for the work to finish, this is something the potential customer should understand at the start. If the biggest concern is getting your weapon back quickly, then I encourage you to consider having someone else work on your project as we may not be able to deliver your project within your time expectations.

 

 

 

Refurbishment VS restoration:

There are great differences between a factory-like refinishing (or refurbishment) and a full-scale restoration and this is a point to clarify. Most of the work we do is the former (factory-like refinish.) In other words, refinishing the weapon just like the factory would have if you returned it to them some time after the gun was made, say for example, an 1890 production gun returned to the factory in the early 1930's.

What's the difference between a factory-like refinish (let's call it plan A) and a restoration (we'll call that plan B)?

There are quite a lot of differences really.

plan A; the factory-like refurbishment resurfaces the metal to a state that is similar to what it was when the gun was new with the proviso. . ."as best as is possible/practical, given the starting condition or state of the gun we are working on" and finishes it in a manner consumate with factory service department practice from the old days. That means keeping the edges square, lettering sharp and surfaces flat and on plane. When they did this, the factory did not recut or restamp markings and you can see many good examples of this by examining guns that were factory refinished by any of the the major manufacturers (a good example would be S&W's "star prefix" serial guns) from the 19-teens through the 1960s.

This kind of rework or refurbishment allows that the bottoms of damages (deep pitting or dents) will also remain, the markings and factory logo are often thinned out, if not even partially obliterated. The factories took a "what you start with determines what you end up with - we are not building you a new gun here" attitude and if the markings had to be lost to give the gun a proper refinish, then so be it. Normally, we are able to go much further than the factory with this since we are doing it one gun at a time but there are still limitations based on what we have to start with.

We are also able to take this a step further than the factory would have on many occasions by having an engraver hand re-cut some markings to the point where they are legible and clear, but again, normally this is not a re-stamp so the edges of letters and logos will never have the slightly raised corners (like you will see on some new guns that have never been refinished.)

Why are we or the factory not restamping markings? There are exceptions, as we can occassionally have some small markings correctly restamped, but as a rule the engraver is the only practical way. The reasons are manifold: To restamp like the factory did it initially requires;

A) that stamps be custom made, an expense averaging anywhere from $200 to several hundred dollars per stamp.

B) portions of some of these markings are quite deep while others were very light, in many cases this would mean removing so much steel that the factory lines may be lost, thereby altering the shape and contour forever. Thus in the process defeating the purpose of restoring the gun. ) in order to restamp properly, every vestige of the old markings must be removed from the area in question.

C) the gun or part must be held quite firmly while the part was actually rolled under the stamp while under pressure. A process that is simply not economically practical to reproduce outside of a production line (factory) environment.) because to correctly roll-stamp the markings, special holding fixtures would have to be made to hold various

In addition, no attempts are or were made by the factory to resurface areas that are not easily accessed, examples of this would include the inside of the frame in the cylinder opening on a revolver, steel under the stock or grips and etc.

Because our work so closely duplicates factory work, as a rule we mark all our refinishing and restoration work with our initials and a date on the frame; up under the grip (where S&W used to mark refinished guns) or under the stock wood, so a serious collector could find it easily.  

The worst kinds of guns to refurbish are guns that have been previously and poorly refinished. I am talking about the kind of work we see so often where someone has taken a loose buff to the gun, knocking out and rounding edges and markings, hogging out screw holes and/or polishing a frame without the sideplate on. This kind of work is the most expensive to repair and there are times when we will outright refuse the work. If we do refuse it or recommend against doing the work, it's because the job will never come out right and from an economical perspective we are trying to do you, the owner, a favor by telling you not to bother. We are giving you the benefit of our experience in judging that such a gun won't come out well, thus we won't have to present you with a job that we know will be less than saftisfactory that everyone is unhappy with.

For some informative reading on this subject, refer to my book Smith & Wesson Sixguns of the Old West (2004, Mowbray Publishing), pages 165-172. Restoration

plan B; The full-on restoration and we do very little of this. Resurfaces and restores all the metal to a state that appears like it was when the gun was new. .period, no matter what it takes.

That would include re-cutting any and all markings to maintain consistent and deep markings throughout the re-surfacing process. Often this actually means cutting and then re-cutting markings or logos several times, depending on how much resurfacing is required so the engraver charges themselves can get pretty steep, pretty fast.

Plan B would also address any and all areas that had been damaged (rounded-off, broken corners and edges, deep pitting, dents or whatever) often involving welding, resurfacing and sometimes even an expensive re-heat treating of the the steel. On top of that, the work also includes preparing any areas that would not normally be seen except on a very close examination.

In short, the effort here would be to re-produce the gun as it was when it was new with no effort or expense spared.   One of the big differences between plan B and plan A is that the sheer amount of work and the costs to perform such work (for plan B) are far greater than the amount of work required a factory-like refurbishment. Jobs like these are always priced individually but normally, full-on restorations hover roughly in the $3000-10,000 range, even more for older guns with serious age damages. Now, it should be said that not every gun will be good enough to start with to warrent a restoration (we shy away from previously, poorly refinished guns and won't touch fire damaged guns at all) and more than that, still fewer firearms are worth enough in any state to be worthy of this kind of expense and labor.

Fire Damage:

Fire damaged guns may or may not be salvagable, the outcome depends on several variables. If it is simply a case of the wood being scorched and metal damage from water and chemicals, then the gun can probably be saved.

Normally, when a gun has been burned badly enough that the wooden grips or stocks are gone and the springs are ruined; we have to assume the heat treatment of the steel is cooked off, in other words the carbon has been drawn out and we would call it unsafe. Some quick evidence of a gun being too far gone is found in the form of an uneven and very hard carbon coating on the surfaces of the steel. This is from what kills most guns gun during a fire; the quench they receive from the water applied by the firemen, this can take the steel from 1800-2000 degrees or more, down to room temp in seconds.

A gun damaged that badly could be brought back but it would be a tremendous amount of work, then there would be the costs for re-marking and for the re-heat treatment of the steel. One other annoying problem resulting from this sort of damage is that just getting them apart can be a terrific challenge. This is because the screws and pins have rusted and expanded in place (due to the carbon released from the quench) forcing one to drill them all out with a carbide drill bit and then to build new, oversized screws and pins; no small job in itself! For almost any gun, the costs to do all this would be far in axcess of its value.

With black powder guns there is more of a chance they might still be redeemed, since the steels were of poor quality anyway and the only parts critically heat-treated were small parts.

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